CO2 enrichment earlier in life

[IamStoned]

I have been researching how to enrich my room with more co2. In my flower room I have 4 x 1000W and I am not running cool tubes. My air comes from outside to cool the room. As it stands I can't find a way to keep the heat down without using more power for things like airconditioning.

My new train of thought is... what if I do the co2 enrichment in my veg. room. I am only running fluros in there so the heat isn't an issue.

My questions are... What kind of enhanced growth can I expect during the first two months? And, will the plants suffer/shock if they have high co2 levels with they are younger, and then normal atmosphere co2 levels when they flower.

Thanks

[DNRDustin]

first: regardless of age, plants need Co2 to grow. i believe atmosphere levels are around 300ppm. go below 200ppm and youre plants photosynthesis will stop. and above 1800ppm is toxic i think so dont go above 1500ppm to be safe. between 1000ppm and 1400ppm you can (theoretically) see a 200% increase in growth. so... think of it this way. all you're life you've had as much food as you needed, you were allways fit active and healthy. then in your sexual prime you had zero food or excersise. you've really let yourself go! how well do you think you'd perform?lol

second: buy your self some closed hoods with vent holes. a closed curcuit system is key when adding Co2(which will also allow youre plants to grow in temps well into the high 90's). it gets HOT where i live! i bud under 4000w's and dont even need to use my a/c during the summer if my lights are on at night. and my 890ish cfm fan uses less than 2 amps on 110. so way cheaper than a 10 or 11 amp air conditioner. for reference, i think 1000w's is like 7.5 amps.
hope this was helpfull, or at least informative.

oh....p.s..... if youre gonna use a Co2 emmiter(not those bio-buckets) make sure you have climate controls that know to shut it off if your exhausting your room!

[d0rk2dafullest]

fuzz logic, ppm-2a, should get one ;)

[Aequitas_7]

Unless you've got a lot going on, you're not going to see massive benefits from Co2 in your veg stage. If it's an option between one or the other, defiantly, defiantly run it during bloom. 1000 to 1500 ppm is ideal. If your room is built under ideal conditions, i.e., no leaks, no exhausting your precious Co2, proper temperatures, etc., etc., you can expect to see about a 20% increase in yield.
With Co2, you can perhaps push your temperature up to 85 tops and still get optimal uptake. If you're running a filter for exhaust, I'd suggest mounting it near the top, as your Co2 will be heavier than the rest of the air. If using as a scrubber, then perhaps leave the filter on the floor and connect the fan to the top of the room via ducting, this will continually redistribute the Co2 to the top of the room, where it will have more effect than just sitting on the bottom. Also, there is no need to run it when your lights are off, they won't be able to absorb enough of it.
Are you air cooling your lights? If not, then do so. That will keep the temperature down without exhausting enriched air.

[Chickenhead7]

[QUOTE=DNRDustin;32706] above 1800ppm is toxic i think so dont go above 1500ppm to be safe[QUOTE]

There was an article in High Times about a grower who bumps his Co2 levels to 2300ppms and his nugs come out like bowling balls....dont know if there is a toxic level with Co2 for plants, I know there is for us obviously, but not sure about them....

I agree with DNR about the hoods tho, the best way to keep temperatures down is to used closed reflectors and vent the hot air out of the room. The best way out of all is to take cold air from another room, run it through the lights, and then spit it back out an exhaust, with the air going through the lights having never touched the air inside the room...

[DNRDustin]

2300 huh? damn! haha you probably wouldnt be able to be in your room for very long.

[Chickenhead7]

2300 huh? damn! haha you probably wouldnt be able to be in your room for very long.

Haha seriously you would like start asphyxiating as you step through the door

[d0rk2dafullest]

i kinda feel like that in my warm room, 4x1000 w with ac and air kings.

[Chickenhead7]

i kinda feel like that in my warm room, 4x1000 w with ac and air kings.

When it comes to making the best room possible, atmosphere control is more important than anything....to be completely honest I would use even 1000watts until you can control the temperature enough to always keep it below 85, preferably 80. No higher than 85 or your potency and your overall bud quality period will go down the toilet.

On top of this, once you have the temperature kept below 80, you can slowly start to add Co2 at low levels and see how much it brings your average temp up in a 24 hour time spand. If the temps ever go over 85, or if your average temperature for the entire day (temps when lights are on and temps when lights are off combined, divided by the number of measurements you took) ever goes above 75-80 then you shouldnt be using Co2 at all until you can get the temps lower, which would mean having an even lower room temp when your not using Co2.

For instance I would want my room to be around 75-80 degrees (no higher) before I would add Co2. That gives me about a 5-10 degree cushion before my temps go over 85 in which I case I would have to cut back on the Co2.

Temperature will always go up when you use Co2, so you have to give your atmosphere some leeway before you put any more in there.

One more thing. If you ever did set up a room that had atmosphere controls, to where exhaust fans would turn on if the temps got too high. You would only want to use an amount of Co2 that would keep the temps below the temperature at which your exhaust turns on. If every time your Co2 turns on and it is at a high release setting and the temperatures skyrocket right off the bat, the exhaust fans will come on and just empty the room of all the Co2 you just put in...which would make it a pointless cycle.

So basically its best to only put an amount of Co2 that will keep your temps below 85, and like I said before preferably 80.

[johnnyballbag]

Yo IamStoned, how's it going buddy? Wanted to clear some stuff up here for ya...

First off, adding co2 only during veg will not increase your yield. What it WILL do is increase your rate of growth. So when talking about what co2 will do for the veg stage, all it'll really do is cut down the amount of time it takes to reach a certain size. So unless you have a need to veg really fast, i would stick with enriching your flowering area first.

And someone here mentioned that co2 will always increase your temps. This might be true if you're using a co2 generator, but if you're using bottled co2 from a tank than that's simply not the case. Only reason why your room temp would increase while using bottled co2 would be if your climate controller turns off your exhaust fan while the co2 is in the room.

Using co2 is VERY dependent upon your climate, if your parameters aren't on point then your plants would be able to fully utilize the gas. And some things to keep in mind about using co2; your humidity will probably rise due to a higher transpiration rate. So make sure you're able to keep that in check. And your plants WILL drink/eat faster if you're using the co2 correctly and have your room dialed in. So make sure your method of feeding is able to keep up with the increased rate of growth.

Hope this helps.

[Chickenhead7]

And someone here mentioned that co2 will always increase your temps. This might be true if you're using a co2 generator, but if you're using bottled co2 from a tank than that's simply not the case. Only reason why your room temp would increase while using bottled co2 would be if your climate controller turns off your exhaust fan while the co2 is in the room.

No offense but this part you said above isnt exactly right....the reason your temps go up is because the gas Co2 absorbs heat energy when light hits it and doesnt release it all back, which increases the temperature of the air that the Co2 is in....not because your exhaust doesnt turn on. The fact that your exhaust doesnt turn will be the reason that the hot air isnt leaving the room, its not the reason the temperature went up in the first place. Whether the Co2 is bottled or not, Co2 will make temperatures go up.

Co2 when it actually comes out of the bottle is kinda cold compared to a Co2 burner which burns propane or natural gas which then releases the hot byproduct of Co2.

So the Co2 coming out a bottle is cold, and the Co2 coming out of the burner is already hot (which is why I would never recomend a Co2 burner unless you use it as a sort of heater cause it so damn cold hwere you are), regardless tho Co2 will cause the room temperature to rise due to the fact that the Co2 gas molecule absorbs heat when light hits it and doesnt release that heat back, it sort of holds on to it, causing the room temperature to go up.

On top of all of this, why would you ever want to have to turn on your exhaust fan on when you have Co2 in the room?....you would just be ehxausting all the Co2 your putting in the room right back outside, making pointless to have brought the Co2 in in the first place.

Thats why I said you should control your temps to where you dont use enough Co2 to make the temperatures rise enough to where the exhaust fans have to come on.

[/QUOTE]And some things to keep in mind about using co2; your humidity will probably rise due to a higher transpiration rate. So make sure you're able to keep that in check. And your plants WILL drink/eat faster if you're using the co2 correctly and have your room dialed in. So make sure your method of feeding is able to keep up with the increased rate of growth.

Hope this helps.[/QUOTE]

Ill agree with this part though and the first thing you said about Co2 in veg not increasing yield later on if you only use it for veg. The Co2 simply promotes growth of plant material, whether this be leaves, branches, or flowers.

When you first turn the Co2 on though, its going to be very dry humidity wise compared to the air in the room. For the most part when first putting Co2 in the room the humidity will probably at first drop....but yeah then followed by higher transpiration rates because the plants are using more of the food they created during photosynthesis when they "breath" during respiration because of the higher amounts of Co2 in the air, overall causing the humidity to rise.

Btw Im not trying to start an arguement, just thought we would trade some information. :)

[johnnyballbag]

Hmm...i actually didn't say you'd want your exhaust fan on while your air is enriched with co2. Shouldn't your climate controller turn off your exhaust fan when co2 is in your room? I mean i might not know much about automation and controllers and such... :p A lot of controllers have thermostats and/or humdistats that control an exhaust fan, so your fan should be off while co2 is in your room, assuming your parameters are correct, which i think i emphasized.

And like it was stated, ambient co2 levels are "around 300ppm." I usually add 1500ppm to that, giving me 1800ppm. Not once have i ever noticed an increase in my room temp that i could attribute to a 1500ppm increase in co2 (i'm pretty OCD about my room parameters, and actually i may have lied; i know a thing or a hundred about controllers, i build my own due to my OCD tendencies ;) ). Do you really think that an increase that small is going to increase your temps? And i'm not arguing either, just good 'ole fashioned debating.

[Chickenhead7]

Hmm...i actually didn't say you'd want your exhaust fan on while your air is enriched with co2. Shouldn't your climate controller turn off your exhaust fan when co2 is in your room? I mean i might not know much about automation and controllers and such... :p A lot of controllers have thermostats and/or humdistats that control an exhaust fan, so your fan should be off while co2 is in your room, assuming your parameters are correct, which i think i emphasized.

Lol we are saying the same thing with this.

[/QUOTE] And like it was stated, ambient co2 levels are "around 300ppm." I usually add 1500ppm to that, giving me 1800ppm. Not once have i ever noticed an increase in my room temp that i could attribute to a 1500ppm increase in co2 (i'm pretty OCD about my room parameters, and actually i may have lied; i know a thing or a hundred about controllers, i build my own due to my OCD tendencies ;) ). Do you really think that an increase that small is going to increase your temps? And i'm not arguing either, just good 'ole fashioned debating.[/QUOTE]

I believe it all depends, I am being a too tight on the fact that Co2 absorbs heat from light. I have had it go both ways...maybe I should have just said that too much Co2 will raise your temperature.

A level of 1500ppm I dont think is going to raise the temp much your right, maybe 1 degree or two....I add Co2 at where levels should be around 16-1700 and I dont see much of an increase either, maybe 3 degrees max.

One time I was growing in a tent and accidently turned the valve all the way open and the tent was constantly being flooded with Co2, needless to say the temps were in the high 90's in the tent when prior to installing the Co2 the temps never went much above 85. It stayed like that until I found out the knob for the valve was turned all the way up....after the tank was empty after only 3 days lol. I have no clue what the ppms were but probably way over 1500.

You are right tho, when I dial in the room size and set the valve to where it will be releasing enough Co2 to set the ppms around 1500 I dont see much of an increase in temperature either....I was being a too strict on that one.

[johnnyballbag]

Haha, its all good bro. See what we're sayin IamStoned? CO2 can be quite the lil bitch. The best advice i can give on making the jump to using co2 is to worry about your climate first. Get that dialed in, and you could set up a simple bottle system, regulator and timer (or monitor, which i strongly recommend) in a matter of minutes. But overlook one thing, and you'll either not see enough benefit from the gas to validate using it, or you'll run into problems, basically biting off more than you can chew. (like not having a control res for a hydro system and finding out your water level got too low due to increased growth and transpiration.)

It's really not hard at all though, we're just trying to drive home the importance of having a proper climate. Make sure you have the means to maintain your temps and humidity, and it's easy street.

[IamStoned]

Thanks for all the replies! I think I will play with using CO2 in veg to see if I can add a few inches to my babies before I flower. CO2 while flowering sounds like a bitch of a job to tackle. Maybe in the winter :-)