reinforced arms necessary?

[usg543]

looking to purchase http://www.aqualabtechnologies.com/medical-glassware/luke-wilson/luke-wilson-inline-double-perc.html

but i've heard with the wicked sands 10 arm minis, the arms broke easily. not sure exactly how, maybe people bumped the tubes... i just don't want something i'm gonna break while cleaning.

and does luke wilson reinforce any of his tree percs?

thanks

[diatribe]

i've seen him reinforce 14-arms, i'm sure he has reinforced others as well

[keithonfire]

looking to purchase http://www.aqualabtechnologies.com/medical-glassware/luke-wilson/luke-wilson-inline-double-perc.html

but i've heard with the wicked sands 10 arm minis, the arms broke easily. not sure exactly how, maybe people bumped the tubes... i just don't want something i'm gonna break while cleaning.

and does luke wilson reinforce any of his tree percs?

thanks

yoo look at the third picture very closely the arms too me looked reinforced on the inside of the trees......trees look to me like they r reinforced to the upstem but my eyes could be lying to me look at it closely and let me know if u see what i see!!

[DCALLSTARR]

most if not all of the new wicked sands 10arm or + models have reinforced perc arms.. which they did not do when they first started making them.

and my luke wilson inline to double 10 arm tube does not have reinforced perc arms yet it is a brand new model tube just made and purchased from luke wilson glass.

[ripps]

my buddy has a zob 8/8 with lw trees and they are not reinforced

[DCALLSTARR]

look i have the exact same tube, only triple chamber and the perc arms are not going to break unless you break them by being careless with your tube..

if you want a tank of a bong with arms that will never snap off get a sovereignty!

fortunately i have both hehe

[usg543]

i pm'ed you dcallstarr

[ShatterWulf]

Trees that are reinforced to the upstem provide no more support against trees cracking off, since bracing to the upstem does nothing to control vibration, which is actually what breaks trees off. Upstem reinforcement is just done by some perc makers to make the pieces easier to assemble. Real reinforcement is bracing the perc trees to the base of the chamber.

[domm11]

if i were you i would def. go with the re-enforced trees since ive had two toros where both the the trees broke off due to someone (not myself) dropping them .. the vibrations caused the trees to depart from the top perc .. costing me well over $600 to replace .. so i mean the re-enforced designs are a bit more expensive i think i maye be wrong but in my opinion its certaintly worth it to get that design

[420p]

^^ Exactly. Better safe then sorry

[ShatterWulf]

if i were you i would def. go with the re-enforced trees since ive had two toros where both the the trees broke off due to someone (not myself) dropping them .. the vibrations caused the trees to depart from the top perc .. costing me well over $600 to replace .. so i mean the re-enforced designs are a bit more expensive i think i maye be wrong but in my opinion its certaintly worth it to get that design

I most certainly agree, SG has reinforcement to the base for a while now; and Toro is definitely keeping the reinforced trees. I think paying more for a reinforced Toro would be worth all the money spent. To bring back up how much more solid the reinforced toros are, here's the super old "sick of this" video by JP that shows how solid the reinforcement is. Even after all that abuse and the tube shatters, the top tree is fully intact.

sickofthis.flv video by jpglass - Photobucket

[WaTdAbLuNt420]

yeah i saw this video a long time ago, reinforced arms are the shit!!!!!

[freakyfoot]

that video is amazing
and to the op
I was a proud owner of a WS tiny 10 arm and not only were the arms on the perc reinforced they also ripped!!

[Hydrophilic]

Damn that video is dope. Next tube I get will have reinforced arms. It should also percolate better since the holes are closed at the end.

[freakyfoot]

an open hole at the bottom promotes more airflow ....

[endoklino]

the open holes promote less diffussion and with the holes being sealed it forces the air to go through the diffusers. at least thats my thoughts on the issue.
endo

[hashcat]

i used to own an sg gridcap with 8arm reinforced tree. also own a 13 arm toro with open bottom

although the toro has more flow...it isnt really noticeable until the clear, when none of the actual diffusion is going on

the sg forced ALL of the smoke through the 2 holes...wheres as i notice the toro comes out of the first slit and then kind of skips the 2nd and goes out the bottom when your pulling hard enough

so id say reinforced closed arms are way better for diffusion/stacking bubbles...but if you really want a fast clear (and more likely to break) then go with the unreinforced

wait....im really drunk
are the toros reinforced...but also open ended??? thats cool

[ShatterWulf]

I believe the toro reinforcement involves the trees extending all the way to the base of the perc chamber where they're sealed to the bottom, making them closed ended.

[Bezooomy]

I have had one of the original non reinforced WS tubes since they came out and it still has all of its arms, I have knocked it into things a few times but it has held up well.

[DaNK]

I own a 13 arm reinforced Toro and I think they hit better than the open end trees. I also own a 10 arm WS tiny with reinforced arms and it rips as well. I cant wait to get my Toro with the 7 arm fixed to be reinforced as well. Will be soon! They already make them. Also saw this weekend that they are making the A/C's with reinforced arms as well now!!

[ifiteluihaf2kilu]

I own a 13 arm reinforced Toro and I think they hit better than the open end trees. I also own a 10 arm WS tiny with reinforced arms and it rips as well. I cant wait to get my Toro with the 7 arm fixed to be reinforced as well. Will be soon! They already make them. Also saw this weekend that they are making the A/C's with reinforced arms as well now!!

Nice reinforced A/C's!!! i will definitely be scooping one of those!!!

[4avalon4]

I have just purchased a 2010 7/13 reinforced perks and the new design of perks at the bottom (sorry for lack of glass term) I also had an "Old School," 7/13 Toro which just broke 10 days ago. 3 of the perks snapped off after I was getting up out of chair playing CoD and kicked it over, not a full kick but deff touched it with my foot. I heard the tube hit the ash catcher as it fell over. I heard the noise you dont want to hear and then looked at the damage.. was right 3 perks had snapped perfects off from where they were sealed.
Back to the goods...The new Toro is ill, kill, sick, phat, dope etc. the difference's are
1. The tube is Actually 18'' you might say WOW wtf but I bought one on here that was "almost 18'' and was 2 inches shorter than new one (wont be lighting beard on fire)
2. LESS DRAG = very nice (the 13 perks touch the bottom, so there are 13 less holes) Also the new design of perks at bottom are closed off at the ends, only 2 slits on each of 3 pushed in sections. (IMO I have not yet decided if I like the new design on the bottom vs. 7 arm's like my original) only had tube 3 days. Maybe a reinforced bottom section just like the top would work real well too, anyways I am real impressed with the way the tube hits, I would say so far it is nicer than last Toro 7/13.
3. The faceted mushroom on the top of my 13 section reinforced arms magnifies this simple section done by TORO but is the only one I have seen YET. Something about it looks cool as the water is splashing around the top section and this mushroom, diamondy thing stands through out it all. Call it what you want, I like it.

Bottom Line: *Rips are smoother*, Tube feels more comfortable in hand, Tube looks more new/fresh, reinforced perks hopefully means less broken tree perks :)

Only Negative thing I can say is that the toro ice pinch slide is not rec. for multiple people. Just for 1 pack and rip.

Pics to be up soon of my new 2010 reinforced 7/13 Toro

[Tobybologna]

^^^
I'm not sure if reinforced trees reduce drag as much as it reduces chug, which I believe is the opposite. It just forces the smoke through slits rather than large holes on the bottoms of the tree, which makes for more more consistent, well perc'ed hits. Reinforced all the way though for sure.
Also, the ice pinch is for snaps, it's pretty much the most perfect single hit there is. Not a negative IMO; to me personally social bowls out of bongs are usually a waste of time.

[Basack]

Ehh the reinforced arms might reduce chug a little. But drag is going to increase with the reinforced arms. They are nice though. And you should NOT have a problem with un reinforced arms. If you hit your tube hard enough to where the arms fall off, then its your tubes time to die haha. Ive had my 7/13 for almost 2 years... No broken arms... and im also not gonna say i havent "tinked" it really really hard before Lol. so if your clumbsy, i recommend not even buying glass ;)

[who-dat]

kudos on the new pickup.....but I have a quick question...was the Toro u broke ur first high end tube?
I ask b/c u broke it w/in (u said) like 3 days of owning it?
IMO Toro has questionable workmanship (JP claims to 'touch' each tube, but what does 'touch' mean anyway?), and for the $ u spent, u might have gotten a tube from a company that u r confident only 1 man made ur tube.......
but I digress, if you're clumsy and (heaven forbid!) something happens to your new Toro, i would suggest getting a 9m thick US tube and like a StoneGlassWorks showerhead diffy and a StoneGlassWorks circ a/c (as SGW circs stack bubbles like crazy...i own one and it STACKS compared to others i've seen)

anyway, good luck w/your glass man! enjoi it, u dropped the load on it!

[JamesDean]

IMO Toro has questionable workmanship (JP claims to 'touch' each tube, but what does 'touch' mean anyway?), and for the $ u spent, u might have gotten a tube from a company that u r confident only 1 man made ur tube.......

Illadelphs with razor thin bottoms are a product of questionable workmanship. Toros, on the other hand, set the standard (along with SG, of course) for great glass in a lot of people's minds. Whether JP touched my tube or not, as long as its up to snuff by him I think I'll sleep easy...

What part of a Toro do you consider questionable?

[who-dat]

i've just seen alot of Toros w/broken arms (yes I know LOTS of people don't care for their tubes as they should....i believe 4avalon4 said he 'kicked' his toro over, meaning it was on the ground...FAIL....EPIC FAIL...the ground is NOT a place for your tube)
I've ripped some killer Toro/toro collab tubes, but I put my $ into SG, or re-enforced tubes (i know 4avalon4 got a NEW enforced Toro tube, and I HOPE that the SAD threads w/broken trees are not as frequent)

[JamesDean]

i've just seen alot of Toros w/broken arms (yes I know LOTS of people don't care for their tubes as they should...

Sounds like more user error than JP's problem. I've smashed my fair share of glass, and never did I say, "well, that thing was made like shit, I only dropped it once!" People need to be extra careful, and take a few steps to ensure their glass lasts as long as karmically possible.

1. No glass on the floor. PERIOD. In my smoke room, there is a certain table that I trust enough to set all my tubes on. Why would I risk it by setting it near everyones clumsy foot?

2. If its not in use, put it back. Having 6 bongs out around the room is like setting up a very fragile obstacle course. If the only tube out is the one you are hitting, its easier to keep track of it and ensure its safety.

3. If they break it, they buy it, but if they don't have the cash to cover it, they ain't hitting it unless I'm helping. "I'll hold, I'll light, you just stand there, inhale, and try not to break anything...":bongin:



Back to JP's work, I guess: I've never seen a toro spontaneously shatter, but I have heard every single broken tree story start with, "Well, I dropped/kicked/nudged etc...." It is definitely awesome that the toro camp started reinforcing the trees, for the customers sake. If anything, thats a sign of his good workmanship.

[Basack]

And what is all this talk " i see so many toros with broken arms!". Every toro ive seen with broken arms has either been dropped, or knocked over. And they were either all posted on GC or by some newbies on other forums including this one, who cant take care of their glass. Dude people buy lw inline/8 arms all the time? zobs? Toro? Old Sg style 8 arms? Itza glass? they all use unreinforced arms! Seems like everyone just hatin on toro again lol.

Their arms dont break any easier then other artists arms. And Ive never had a problem... Speaking of broken arms, do you guys not remeber the 6 in 1?... I beleive i owned it multiple times, and held the attachments/ arms in my hands multiple times.... Including dinking them around on the joint a few times trying to get the attachments out/in....

The arms are protected by the outer body of the tube. In order to break the arms, you gotta hit it HARD. Like i said a zillion times. Never ever ever had a problem with unreinforced arms. And neither has annnnyyyoooneeee else who takes care of there glass... Do i break arms? Does anyone else on the forums who takes very very good care of theyre tubes break arms? For instance glassaholic? Thebreadwinner? Fatcobra? etc etc etc etc....

Im not trying to speak for anyone, but everyone who seems to take awesome care of theyre glass, doesnt show us many breaks... Hmmmm kinda shows us its you being clumbsy not the tubes welds...

[retti borosaurus]

satisfied owner of a spotless toro that gets heavily used everyday, not a scratch on it. couldnt be happier with it.

[NoKid]

I think taht when people think of open ends on teh tree they automatically think that the tree needs to have a huge opening hole on the bottom to stop from drag, or restriction. But if the slits have been cut correctly, the surface area of the cuts should surpass the surface area of hte upstem. So iin conclusion open ends do not flow any more than close ends if the cuts are done right. It is all in your head. The whole what weighs more a pound of brick or a pound of feathers. everyone is oging to look at open ends and assume that they flow more, but looks are decieving.

[Tobybologna]

Fundamentally untrue, an additional larger hole will definitely cause the tube to hit differently. If you think it may be better or equally good as a reinforced arm, that's one thing. But I know for a fact if you hit an open tree hard enough (which isn't that hard) the bubbles come out of the bottom of the arms.

[NoKid]

Fundamentally true bud. I did not say that the open holes or closed holes wouldnt hit different. They do. I did not say that it was equally good or better than reinforced arms. So pretty much you need to go back and read what i allready said The point so it will sink in WHAT I AM SAYING IS: The flow rate is not compromised by having the bottoms sealed, as long as the cuts are done right. So when people say closed arms drag more it is in their heads.