CO2 extraction - Fact or Fiction?

[fuzzdog]

Yeah Co2 extraction........ Maybe you heard of the technique, seen it done, or know of a tutorial.

Is it all talk?

Or is it some guarded tribal family technique handed down through the ages to those only who were worthy........

Brothers of the glandular trichomes, help me in my quest to gather any and all info, or knowledge of this type of extraction.

[dankocalypse]

never heard of it, whats wrong with bubble hash or kief?

[Soupbone]

Fact. Read the wiki entry, its quite interesting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercritical_carbon_dioxide

[f0urtwenty]

I posted this in another thread:

I have heard many rumors of co2 critical extraction done with a DIY setup using mostly paintball fittings and parts. But I haven't seen one, so they may just be rumors. The design posted above (Most designs you will see used in the fragrance industry) is/are a closed system that will recoup the co2. It has the heating and cooling elements built in. Something like this will run upwards of $50k, used. Bubbleman has also indicated to me that the US government closely monitors the buying and selling of super critical extraction units because of their ability to extract shit used in weapon systems.

Essentially all you would really need is a co2 bottle connected to a valve connected to a T-joint. The t-joint would break off into a valve and collection box on one side and the other will be the pressure vessel. The idea is to cram some plant material in a pressure vessel, open the tank and allow the pressure vessel to get up to roughly 3000 PSI before closing the valve. You could use a pelter junction to heat the pressure vessel up to 50C/122F for about 5 minutes. Then open the second valve, which is attached to the stainless steel, vented, collection box. The co2 will expand to a gas in the collection box and go out the vents. When the co2 expands, the oils will dissolve out.

There are some risks involved with increasing PSI to 3000, so ensure the pressure vessel can take that much pressure. CO2 isn't the only compound that has supercritical properties. I believe propane is supercritical at only about 120PSI. You can probably find a lot of the stuff needed to build one of these here: http://www.metalsdepot.com/ The other stuff can be found at paintball supply shops and you may need to get something lathed or milled to complete the project.

*edit - In CA for a medicinal user, oil is illegal because of the dangers when using butane to extract the oil. So the clubs/dispensaries will still sell oil, but call it co2 extracted to skirt the laws. The general consensus is that you are still getting BHO, but the product has been renamed to indicate it wasn't extracted with butane; sometimes called wax, goo, etc.

[Green Supreme]

Although I believe co2 would be decent solvent for cannabis, I highly doubt there is very much concentrates made from it really out there. Maybe one day, but not Monday. Peace GS

[Basack]

Fact. And awesome. http://www.edenlabs.org/supercritical_extraction.html.
http://www.chemistry.adelaide.edu.au/external/soc-rel/content/sfe.htm
Some just needs to pick up one of these machines and were set to go:)
-The advantages of supercritical fluid extraction (compared with liquid extraction) are that it is relatively rapid because of the low viscosities and high diffusivities associated with supercritical fluids.

-
Carbon dioxide is the most common supercritical solvent. It is used on a large scale for the decaffeination of green coffee beans, the extraction of hops for beer production,[4] and the production of essential oils and pharmaceutical products from plants. Few laboratory test methods include the use of supercritical fluid extraction as an extraction method instead of using traditional solvents

Hmm seems this last line is most deffinelty referring to medical cannabis... "the production of essential oils and pharmaceutical products from plants."

[hashINout]

thats one extract type that i haven't yet been apart of the process , but i have grabbed some from my favorite dispensary in frisco and im positive it was a different solvent used then butane, from the look2the taste 100% different. it looked like red sand(never seen red sand in person but from what iv seen, just like it) and it just tasted alot cleaner and had much irritation on the throat and a pinch or2 on a few snaps would have you nice and toasted, a little pricey but definitely worth it2me...

[OnlyHighGrade]

^^^^ kinda what he said. A club in LA called the Cornerstone Research Collective had some CO2 extraction about a year ago. They were calling it amber glass cause it was red and glassy like compared to wax, goo or whatever else you wanna call it.

I believe it was actually CO2 extraction because I was fairly friendly with the owner and he seemed to care about his inventory more than most in the area.

However, the stuff tasted absolutely horrible. Literally like melting plastic. It also gave me the worst experience from anything cannabis to date.

The stuff I think was 70 a g and he gifted me almost 2 and I just ended up giving it away cause none of us wanted to smoke it. I prefer bubble or dry siv any day, but that's just me

[quix]

I wish I still had some CO2 hash left. It was a hard yellow ball that would turn into an oil if you held it too long. If I had some left I would post a picture. There is no better hash that I have seen, CO2 hash in the bees knees.

[fuzzdog]

Quix my friend, that is what I seek.

I, as you, have seen and smoked, what I was told to be "Co2 extracted".

The extraction technique most are describing here, is of a hash oil type extraction (super critical) using a pressurized tube to extract. Why???? Could not Co2 be run into the water of a bubble bag type extraction?

Thanks to all that have replied. I'm sure there are those with the knowledge of the process, that renders a final result that I seek. As I have seen it, held it, and smoked it.

Bought to me from a friend, of a friend, of the person that made it.
Oh yes! there was a "story" that came with the jar, 3/4 full of this foamy yellow "Lard" looking, beautiful sticky mass.

So I continue my quest.....

[YukonBikerGuy]

Any product that has had any solvent used on it for the extraction is OIL, not hash.

Hash oil is only made by using a solvent on hash to make oil, oil made from herb is just oil.

Hash is collecting trichs in one of several ways without using solvent.

'Dry ice' or solid CO2 has been used instead of ice in the bubblebag method, search the forums for the thread. Using CO2 as a supercritical solvent (in a liquid state) requires that it be under pressure (3000psi I think), and you aint doin that in a bucket with bags in it.

I would hazard a guess that 99.5% of 'CO2 extracted' resins for sale are actually made with butane and/or iso and relabeled to skirt laws or make people feel less nervous about possible contaminants in the final product.

As for a CO2 method becomming common, I totaly agree with GS: "maybe someday, but not Monday".

YBG

[GanjaGuru]

Here in Nor cal we call co2 extracted oil Gold dust oil. I'm sure the idea was mimicked from the micro brewing industry as super critical fluid extractions have long been done on hops as i've been told.

The final product Gold Dust would liquify at room temperature, and was around 70% pure.

If this be yer quest maitee, go read Cannabis Alchemy and learn a much better way to soar past 70% pure.

I have.....Still prefer Ice Hash, Bout to run a batch........

[Melty_Melt_420]

the oil I had recently from some nor cal kids was exactly that

i like it alot was nice stuff :)

[Basack]

hashish |ˈhaˌ sh ē sh |
noun:
an extract of the cannabis plant, containing concentrations of the psychoactive resins.

Maybe around here yall dont wanna classify oils as "hash" next to your precious bubble HEHE, but it IS in fact a type of hash/"hashish" :-/ .... Hashish is a thc cannabis extract no matter how you do it am i right? Just trying to clear this up because i remember being banned from a chat (not fmb chat) becuase of calling my oil hash.

[Green Supreme]

I'd gladly agree with whatever definition is in the glossary of R.C.Clarke's new Hashish book. Peace GS

[HerbalToker]

i would have to agree that a THC Extract of any kind is hash... if it had to COME from hash to BE hash.. Bubble Hash would be called.... Bubble Weed..or weed bubble.. lol, Just my two sense.

PEACE

[YukonBikerGuy]

Recently came across a closed loop CO2 setup online, for only $10K USD used, from a lab equipment supplier, (probably monitored). And the whole setup only took up most of a medium sized room...... its still not Monday.

Basack,
BTW, your own supplied definition says 'an' extract of the cannabis plant.... not 'any'. As well as 'containing concentrations' without reference to what else it contains, and that is what hash is. A collection of stuff. Also, there is THC in hash, but hash is not an extract of THC. Hash contains many psyhcoactive compounds along with THC (CBD & CBN among several others) as well as pistilate hairs, wax membranes, plant material, dirt, etc, and that is assuming pure hash. It could also contain added waxes, binders, various fillers (like sawdust, sand, animal dung), even the skin of the man's hands that rubbed it into hash... so as you can see in no way is it a pure THC extraction.

Hash is collected, Oil is refined. Hash Oil is cannabis material that is
first collected, and then refined. But hey, if you want to perpetuate the
image of the uneducated stoner too lazy to care cuz its 'good enuff'... then by all means keep calling solvent extracted and refined canabis products hash if you like, but its not. Period.

YBG

[Basack]

Sounds like your just telling yourself what you want to hear... "an extract of the cannabis plant" does not refer to only 1 type of extract.... But to ANYTHING that is an extract of the cannabis plant. Also, when making oils or bubble, we ARE doing a THC extraction. We are trying to extract the Thc.

Just because we cannot make it 100% pure yet, does not mean that we are shooting for anything else but the THC. Like you said, its not a PURE thc extraction. Hash is collectedd, and oil is refined - doesnt make any sense to me... When running buds with tane or ice water your doing 2 different methods of trichome extraction.

Collecting buds has nothing to do with it. It just seems as if your looking down on anyhting besides bubble. The term "hash" tho has been used for hundreds of years as a cannabis extract weather it be iso hash, butane hash, dry sift hash (pressed or unpressed), ice water extract hash, etc.How come you can call bubble "hash" then if you use buds and not "hash" to make it... Serious conversation. No need to tell me im uneducated for wanting to discuss

[Green Supreme]

LOL thats funny oil and 100's of years. Wonder if they been makin iso and butane for 100's of years, huh and back to stupid stoners lol. What no description from the Hashish book? Damn gotta get that book. Peace GS

[salad931]

iono...ive noticed that alot of the concentrates around the city all appear to be the same but when i ask the bud tender, they either say nitrogen or co2.... just seems like the vendors say that to make it seem more complicated and pricey, as people are figuring out that BHO isnt worth the money theyre selling it for.

if youre making your own co2 extraction then me hats go off to you, but i still dont trust that shit in the clubs

and the word "hash oil" sounds cool, so i dont really get the point in arguing against it, i dont buy it, smoke barely any of it, and certainly would never pick it over some melt so i don really care what other people are calling their shit

[Basack]

I never said that people have been making iso and butane hash oil for years. I said that the term HASH has already been defined long ago and a new book that has a new definition for it is not the best resource. Stupid stoners?.... YOur on a full melt site and ur avatar is bubble but you call someone a stupid stoner lol. :sick1:

[Green Supreme]

The term "hash" tho has been used for hundreds of years as a cannabis extract weather it be iso hash, butane hash, dry sift hash (pressed or unpressed), ice water extract hash, etc

Your words genius. What you wrote looks pretty clear to me but back pedal while ya can. Dude if you don't think R.C.Clarke would be a good source for a hash term, well nuff said man. Peace GS

[Basack]

I was refering to iso and butane as present day methods... iso, butane ,Dry sift, ice water, and other solvents (etc......)<----- were just a few example of hash making processes and yes SOME of them have been used for decades. Obviously a retard can tell, i am just trying to say hash = cannabis concentrate. No need to play jedi mind tricks to get your way ;)

[YukonBikerGuy]

No, what you stated was : hash = THC extract , and that an means the same as any.

Oh wait, let him backpedal you say?

Okey and the Dokey, Smokey. :)
YBG

[sunseeds]

Quote from Robert Connell Clarke's book "HASHISH!" as found in glossary on page. 372 of newest edition:
"A psychoactive substance consisting of the resin heads of glandular trichomes shaken or rubbed from mature female Cannabis floral clusters, pressed together, and shaped."

Seems to me that this isn't the best definition Green S. because this wouldn't include water extracted hash if it is only "hash" when it has been "shaken" or "rubbed" from the plant matter.

[Green Supreme]

I believe ice shakes and rubs. Peace GS

ps. note it doesn't say dry or wet

[YukonBikerGuy]

I concur. The action of the ice and water rub or break off the brittle trichome heads. Whether wet or dry, it is still a mechanical action seperating the heads from the glandular trichomes, as opposed to a chemical action like dissolution in a solvent.

my 2 bits
YBG

[sunseeds]

Nicely put. Definition is appropriate. solvent extracted "oil" is not Hash, water extracted resins are.

[co2xtractor]

Yeah Co2 extraction........ Maybe you heard of the technique, seen it done, or know of a tutorial.

Is it all talk?

Or is it some guarded tribal family technique handed down through the ages to those only who were worthy........

Brothers of the glandular trichomes, help me in my quest to gather any and all info, or knowledge of this type of extraction.
no this wasnt handed down, i created it from combining a couple of different knowledges and applying them. get a high pressure vessel, i use an oxygen cylinder rated at 2,100 psi, a guage that reads 4,000 psi, and a regulator valve. you need solid carbon dioxide crushed to fit the 3/8th inch hole at the top of vessel, fill it to near the top but dont pack it down w a tamp or anything, then use weed ground to a powder or as close to it as u can, my system uses 14 grams most effectively, then i use ethanol as a co-solvent to preserve the taste @ 2-20%. bacarrdi 151 is suitable. i then thread on the regulator and make sure there isnt any leaks. i wait about 8 hrs for a thorough extract in a subcritical mode, but if i go supercritical it can be done in about 10 mins at 104'f is ideal 1,500 psi should do just fine. release the valve and it will come out as a snow different from the parent co2. once the dry ice has evaporated and the ethanol is gone as well, what is left is pure extract. i should post a youtube video soon, so look for it in the next week or two as i will be the first to give a demonstration/tutorial on the subject. simple strait forward deseign, easy procedure could be done by lamens w ease. :pray:

[co2xtractor]

i told you how i extract w co2, but i dont see it posted, i hope you got the instuctions.

[co2xtractor]

Nicely put. Definition is appropriate. solvent extracted "oil" is not Hash, water extracted resins are.
its more appropriately called HONEY OIL. bho aint got shit on this thoroughly extracted extract. bho is narrow in its spectrum of dissolving tricomes and leaves essential oil behind in the matrix even if butane is clear after rinsing. supercritical butane has more solvating power, but have never seen anyone do it @ 580 psi and 306'f. co2 is also tunable with heat directly effecting pressure. more heat = more pressure. not the case w butane or propane.

[Bubbleman]

I know you can extract cannabis resins with co2.. but its strange that no one has ever posted a photo essay of it.. i mean we all have camera's most of us on our phones... yet.. you dont see the thread...
to me a picture is worth a thousand words.Be nice to see the photo essay of C02 extracts...

my two cents

Bubble man

[777]

some pics of ...the machine ...the whole process...the co2 oil...and some lab reports of purity....til then give me my 8 bags and some h2o have a blessed day

[YukonBikerGuy]

I keep looking for an affordable machine, but the process really requires lab grade equipment to be done safely, and its not cheap. Even the smallest machine takes up considerable space as well. Some of the largest require that you fly out a tech to set it up and teach you how to do it (paying room, board, and wages).

I have come across a very small scale process that might work, but it makes approx 0.01g or less per fraction, it is also very primitive and not the cleanest process for debris in the final product. Does not seem to be scaleable to larger runs, more of a demo process than anything.

You can be sure that if I find a safe workable process, I will be sharing here before anywhere else, as always.

YBG

[Daveytree]

Add me to the list of people who have been under the misunderstanding that C02 and dry ice extraction are the same - but clearly from this thread there is a lot more to it than that.... seems there is a lot of confusion out ther in the wider world, as evidenced by this youtube vid which purports to make "Dry Ice (C02) Hash).... some of the comments on the youtube video confuse the issue even more, with some claiming that the elusive "C02 Hash" made with compressed gas is simply a pseudonym for BHO used in places where BHO is illegal.

making dry ice (c02) Hash - YouTube

[Bubbleman]

Just for the Record.. cause i have not written it anywhere as of yet..
The dry ice method in my opinion.. is extracting way to much contaminant.. would love to see that shit under a microscope or my lens..
the chunks look nice... but the green powder looks utterly brutal.
I really dont get the excitement about a method that allows you to extract high levels of contaminant...

Bubble man

[YukonBikerGuy]

The video shows a dry sift style extraction using CO2 to freeze the material brittle enuff to sift. I notice that he is using fresh undried material as well. This results in a semi-pliable if somewhat contaminated hash.

CO2 extraction can also be done under pressure. At 3000psi and above, CO2 acts as a supercritical solvent, dissolving the trichomes in the process, and ending up with more of an oil as a final product.

The confusion about what is hash and what is oil exists, and persists, unfortunately. It's easiest to think of it like this: If a solvent has been used to disolve and collect the trichomes, its oil. If the trichomes have been seperated mechanicly, its hash. Lots of stoners are lazy, and call it whatever. To make it even more confusing, CO2 can be used in different processes to yield different products.

I try to be accurate as possible, and not pass on the 'lazy stoner info' as much as possible. People already look at cannabis users as 'dumb potheads', and I feel we do not need to encourage that stereotype.

Hash is hash, oil is oil. Hash oil is made from hash (not bud or trim). Jellyhash is a bastardized mix of hash and oil (usually to beef up some shittier hash).

Did I get off on a tangent?.... I'm high.... later...

YBG

[Daveytree]

The video shows a dry sift style extraction using CO2 to freeze the material brittle enuff to sift. I notice that he is using fresh undried material as well. This results in a semi-pliable if somewhat contaminated hash.

CO2 extraction can also be done under pressure. At 3000psi and above, CO2 acts as a supercritical solvent, dissolving the trichomes in the process, and ending up with more of an oil as a final product.

The confusion about what is hash and what is oil exists, and persists, unfortunately. It's easiest to think of it like this: If a solvent has been used to disolve and collect the trichomes, its oil. If the trichomes have been seperated mechanicly, its hash. Lots of stoners are lazy, and call it whatever. To make it even more confusing, CO2 can be used in different processes to yield different products.

I try to be accurate as possible, and not pass on the 'lazy stoner info' as much as possible. People already look at cannabis users as 'dumb potheads', and I feel we do not need to encourage that stereotype.

Hash is hash, oil is oil. Hash oil is made from hash (not bud or trim). Jellyhash is a bastardized mix of hash and oil (usually to beef up some shittier hash).

Did I get off on a tangent?.... I'm high.... later...

YBG

Makes sense to me - I guess it's been said several times in this thread (and others).... I appreciate y'all's comittment to keeping the terminology correct (and the product fine).... that's what keeps bringing me back to this site.

[hmmmtastey]

I had a friend who used to use the dry ice method, and always seemed to produce that green keif crap at the end of the video... I know a guy who makes his own CO2 critical extraction, but he won't give up his secrets :-/

And I agree with Bubbleman all the way, why go for quantity if it just means low quality?

[18dummy]

So if I understand correctly, the CO2 extraction method, while still an unproven and costly way to make hash oil, might hold promise for the future. There obviously needs to be more research and info on the topic, and a picture or video thread would be a good first start.

All things considered, however, imagine supercritical CO2 was a feasible extraction method that created high quality oil. My question is this: will this oil not have many of the same properties that bubble hash? Will it be mainly thc and fewer other cannabinoids and essential oils? Or is there just not enough information to know?

Thanks

[catchdog]

I started extracting a few years back when i found myself with large amounts of trim.
place trim ice and a gallon jug and you can watch the trichs fallout :)
in the last 2 yrs I have tried every extract method that i have heard of even suggested. so far the bubble bags are the most efficient and quality per quantity is good. I started looking for HOPS extraction and perfume extraction the research is there in those fields and CO2 is proven method for extraction.
i will try steam extraction soon going to build a still and see wont be hash but should be a pure extract. when he book shows up the SCIENCE will continue.

http://www.oilganic.com/books/Supercritical-Fluid-Extraction-of-Nutraceuticals-Bioactive-Compounds%20.html

[shmalphy]

I saw this post on another site earlier. I lol'd



bho making bylaw # 424.12-6,7:

"when making bho, if you have an explosion blame it on everything BUT the explosive gas used to make said bho" , "if all signs point to bho as blame, say it was CO2 extraction and not bho afterall"

https://www.icmag.com/ic/userimages/thumbnails/679/eee6c8b5aef13c04f66e8a9a7183f65a_679873.jpg?dl=130 6279036

[anonymouse]

Extracting limonene using liquid carbon dioxide - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2aIUemy9Xw)

but I think there might be a little more to it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQPD4YBgeT8&feature=related

[Criceolation]

The advantage of CO2 oil over bubble or solventless hash is that you are guaranteed a full melt, high potency product. The potency will vary dependent on the source material, but the presence of plant matter and other contaminants will be consistently minimal. Unlike bubble or solventless extracts, the end product is decarboxylated, or activated. Heat is applied during the extraction which transforms THC into it's active form, making it an effective format for edibles. Not all BHO extractions are active, and most doctors don't recommend using BHO in foods. CO2 oil has little to no risk of containing industrial byproducts or heavy metals like BHO does. CBD, a "secondary" cannabinoid, does not translate well into BHO. Bubble or solventless hash and CO2 extracted oil both contain a similar or in some cases, higher ratio of CBD per source material yielded. This makes CO2 highly appealing to the medical industry, as the end product is safe, clean, has an excellent cannabinoid profile depending on source material, and can be used in foods effectively and safely. I don't believe that terpenes and flavor translate as well into CO2 oil, honestly. Next time I pick some up, I'll post up photos.

[Criceolation]

http://cannlabs.com/papers/CO2%20Extraction.pdf

[Criceolation]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/541197_3173540050607_1028716311_32381678_142885139 3_n.jpg

[Hashrabit]

Neat, I really wonder about oils sometimes, is that a pricey product? Co2 extraction is NOT a cheap setup. I suppose im cynical and highly doubt anyone is providing this for mmj clubs.

[Criceolation]

Yes it is, but it goes far. For edibles purposes, a .5g syringe contains approximately 400mg THC and 400mg CBD but are $30 a piece. Still, if a patient is flashing it off of a skillet or nail or the Health Stone, they can get as much as 30 doses out of a syringe. The above picture IS super critical CO2 extracted oil purchased at a dispensary in Colorado.

[hmmmtastey]

Yes it is, but it goes far. For edibles purposes, a .5g syringe contains approximately 400mg THC and 400mg CBD but are $30 a piece. Still, if a patient is flashing it off of a skillet or nail or the Health Stone, they can get as much as 30 doses out of a syringe. The above picture IS super critical CO2 extracted oil purchased at a dispensary in Colorado.

400MGx2 is .8g... so how does a .5g syringe contain .8 of product? just wondering...

[Criceolation]

^ Correct, I was operating off of the math I used for a recipe containing two syringes. The actual dosage would be about half that. The oil results in about 40% THC and 40% CBD, so a .5 syringe should contain in the neighborhood of 200mg of each as opposed to the 400 I previously stated. Good catch and good math, tastey.

[hmmmtastey]

^ Correct, I was operating off of the math I used for a recipe containing two syringes. The actual dosage would be about half that. The oil results in about 40% THC and 40% CBD, so a .5 syringe should contain in the neighborhood of 200mg of each as opposed to the 400 I previously stated. Good catch and good math, tastey.

That's what I figured, just had to make sure, but if that is indeed the case, then that is quite good, have not ever heard of a CO2 extract being that potent...

[onegreenday]

There are some 'inventors' working on co2 extractors here:
$2.00 co2 xtraction

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrjpKe2c4YU (https://www.youtube.com/all_comments?v=KrjpKe2c4YU)


He says the little green cylinder is an oxygen cylinder rated for 2100 PSI.
In this thread somebody wrote SC CO2 is 3,000 PSI.