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Thread: Please read this!!!!

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    33

    Default Please read this!!!!

    Hello glass lovers and friends. This is JP from TORO. It has taken a lot of deliberation for me to put this out there, but I finally decided to. Please bear with me through this, though, for it is not easy for me, but comes from my heart.

    The reason for me writing to you today, is because a former friend and shopmate who goes by the name of Joe, Joey, Slutty Glass stabbed me in the back.

    We were super tight. I let him into my home and my heart. I and my family were super good to him. In short, we considered him to be a part of our family.

    Last August, Joey, Hops, and I went on a "family" vacation together. Joey never returned to the shop after it, due to a "personal" crisis. My wife and I called him repeatedly since then to see how he was doing with his situation, but never got a response back.

    I taught him everything he knows about lathe working and much more with glass, along with all of my trade techniques. To make a long story short, the one thing that Joey did NOT learn from me were his ethics and morals. He is young, and will have to learn that on his own.

    It was brought to my attention that he has started a tube company called Itza. The designs and work are duplicates of Everything he saw and learned in our shop. When I saw them, my mouth hit the floor and my heart was utterly stabbed.

    Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of companies and people out there inspired by my work that I hear of. I won't lie, sometimes it hurts me. I mean come on, I'm an artist with an ego and I put my soul into my creations, but over time I have come to accept that "imitation is the greatest form of flattery." Quite frankly, some of them are doing even a better job than this guy who apprenticed right under me!

    I am not threatened by Itza. What I am is hurt, disappointed, and shocked. Joey was fully aware of how I felt about anybody I let into my shop, leaving with trade secrets. He left right before he was supposed to sign a non-compete contract, but in the meantime, we had a "Gentleman's Contract" which he swore up and down to always live by.

    After Joey left my shop, handmade specialized tools(that took me a lot of thought to come up with) and my sketch book were missing which have allowed him to duplicate my work--that is..trees, fixed diffusers, etc.

    Last week, I made every effort to contact Joey, even threatened to take legal action with our patent(which is currently pending) and for theft. However, I have decided that this forum and one other is the better route to take since I find him to be highly melicious and untrustworthy. There is a LOT more to this, but have been advised not to lay it all out there at this moment. But I will say this, at first he had me fooled, but now I have no problem saying that in my opinion, and many others in this community can back me on this, that he is a con-artist and a GOOD one.

    I know that this happens in this business and others all the time. But contrary to popular opinion, we are not some "big" company. Every worked piece is put together by me. I spend 16 hours/7 days a week, working hard to make people happy. The truth is, I will never be able to fill all of my orders. That is a fact.

    I get it that it is not fair for us to try to bully the industry with my patent. There is plenty to go around. The only reason for having one is to protect myself from someone else patenting my design and trying to use it against me. This has happened in other cases in this industry, and I was advised that it is best to not repeat other's mistakes.

    The bottom line is, decide for yourself if you feel the need to support a character like Joey through Itza. As far as I'm concerned:

    ITZA FAKE

    I just will not be able to sleep if I do not get this off my chest.
    Thanks for listening and for all of your support.

    peace,
    JP

  2. #2

    Default

    sad to see...

    itza, consider this a cancellation of my order...

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    in a house...
    Posts
    136

    Default

    i just want everyone to know that as far as im concerned ODM(originaldutchmaster) has NOTHING to do with this and should be treated as such.


    this thread is open for now...if people cant behave themselves then i will shut it back down...

    toro is part of the fmg/fmb family and will stay that way. if people have a problem with that there is other places to go...
    Last edited by Back Stabbath; 09-15-2009 at 09:20 AM.
    [CENTER]Family:
    Slinger(alot), Badtram(jarpipe), Snic(art and func),
    Hamm(4 pieces), Hops(alot), Ease(1'y), ira(lock), Pakoh(bot), SG(lbb), [SIZE=2]Illadelph(alot), Toro(mini), Migrant(9mm beak), RooR(strght), Dan K(hammer), Bates(alot)...

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    27

    Default "Aint nothin like the real thing, baby..."

    Just wanted to show my support. sometimes it costs a little, sometimes it costs a lot to learn what a person is really made of... learn from it and let it go, you'll have a much lighter journey that way.
    also... your technique is magnificent. i first saw toro on utube by accident. Im old skool so posting b.t. on the net isn't my forte but it caught my eye (the old 4 foot Graffics was cool in my college daze) Anyways, nice work. Id always go with the originator, he know why, not just how...

    p.s. Can i get the hook up? haven't had a sick piece in a while, and while i mostly vape, i often long for the super milky rip that make you levitate. discount for medical status?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    58

    Default

    wow im sorry to hear that JP coming from your here in NY and enough sad i been noticing this for ahwile but had no clue itza joe was considerablly in your shop learnign from you himself is a very trudt worthy thing to do and in the long runned horriable to see this happen to such a well known great glass company that will allways be on top TORO FTR itza just for peeple that cant afford the beauty of a real toro best of luck to u JP and i would love to see some new styles of fixed stems or circ fixed stems in the future best of luck to u my friend


    NYCtoker

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    8

    Default

    looks like he ripped of sg 2 with his new double bubbler, but not as bad as u. sorry this happened to such a stand up company

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    788

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by m5kid View Post
    looks like he ripped of sg 2 with his new double bubbler, but not as bad as u. sorry this happened to such a stand up company
    pretty sure those where custom orders,
    something TORO has done as well

    looks like j.p ripped off Sg ?
    Glass By:
    Toro, Sg Sovereignty, RooR.de, BoB Dobolina, SGW, Zack P, ITZA, Nate Dizzlle,

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Buffalo
    Posts
    836

    Default

    Wow its sad that some people are that way.

    all i know is if u take somebody in and treat them like family then go and then do something like that is just really F$$$$$ up!

    when all is said and done it took alot for jp to post this im sure off. and well jp you got my support! and thankyou for being hear for the communtiy and letting us know the TRUTH! That says alot about you as a perons.

    and it alll makes so much more sense now. cause the first itza i saw, i said is that a toro!

    all i got to say is how can u do that to family.
    Last edited by ToRo Head; 09-15-2009 at 06:30 AM.
    Glass By:
    Ak
    DePPe
    Devol
    George From Bern Glass
    HoPPs
    Jason Lee
    RooR.DE
    ToRo

    Saw Dread say this in a thread and loved it!

    "theres no "janky" toros just "janky" owners"

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    440

    Default

    Any artist out there who opens his eyes to others work is influenced by it whether or not he admits it.
    As for Itza being similar to Toro I don't see a problem with someone using the skills and technique they were taught.

    Stealing custom tools and design books however isn't acceptable behaviour , and not being open and honest about what you're doing especially to close friends is morally wrong if not legally and I highly doubt any of Itza's glass will every find a home in my collection after reading this.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Colorado, Elevation: 7900/5003 feet
    Posts
    411

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Glassaholic View Post
    Any artist out there who opens his eyes to others work is influenced by it whether or not he admits it.
    As for Itza being similar to Toro I don't see a problem with someone using the skills and technique they were taught.

    Stealing custom tools and design books however isn't acceptable behaviour , and not being open and honest about what you're doing especially to close friends is morally wrong if not legally and I highly doubt any of Itza's glass will every find a home in my collection after reading this.
    Well put Glassaholic. I couldn't have said it better my self. I do understand where JP is coming from though being a fellow glass blower.
    M.A.N. Glass Art

    “Only that in you, which is me, can hear what I'm saying.” ~ Ram Dass
    "Creativity tends to feed more creativity. Experiencing other people's work makes a better artist." ~ Jonathan
    "If it smells like trout, get the hell out. If it smells like cologne, leave it alone. If it doesn't smell at all, give me a call!" ~ Jebub

    Friends don't let friends use BHO.


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