Please read this!!!!

[EEbrew]

Fuck, every other glass blower out there ripped off hops's Design and you don't see him bitching on multiple forums.

also Toro ripped off illa's circulator, and sg's grid line for their 6 in1

[Hieronymus Bosch]

That's a good way to wind up in a casket where I'm from.

[Hieronymus Bosch]

Fuck, every other glass blower out there ripped off hops's Design and you don't see him bitching on multiple forums.

also Toro ripped off illa's circulator, and sg's grid line for their 6 in1

Yea, but it's totally undeniably fucked up when your homeboy jacks your shit...major difference.

[EEbrew]

Yeah but you don't know the whole story, neither do I for that matter.

[ToRo Head]

Fuck, every other glass blower out there ripped off hops's Design and you don't see him bitching on multiple forums.

also Toro ripped off illa's circulator, and sg's grid line for their 6 in1

I dont think its about the desings i think its more so about the way it happen! im sure it would be alot different if the guy sat down with jp and told him he wants to branch out on his own. but not the way he did by takeing his own personal book and tools!

[DCALLSTARR]

somebody yell at JP TORO for stealing ILLADELPHS design book then!

i know im probably going to incite a riot but come on, WHO MADE THE CIRCULATOR FIRST? toro or illadelph? ask yourself that question and then come up with who is moral and who is immoral.

he who is WITHOUT sin may cast the first stone. but he who has already committed acts of taking other peoples designs shalt not be hypocritical of the same occurring to them..


Oh yeah and ITZA FTMFW! they sell the same products at half toro's prices or better!

[originaldutchmaster]

if a discussion is allowed here, i dont understand why my thread was deleted...

[WAK]

We have gone out of our way to give props when props are due--

as for the circulator, JP does not go on the internet much--when he does, it's to look at his own work--when JP made his first circulator, when he showed me, I said to him, that's awesome, but I feel like I saw that somewhere before-I went and searched the internet and went so far as to call Madcity to ask him if he'd seen it and who did it--he can vouche for me on this--I did find illys thread eventually, but in the end consciously chose not to say anything since JP had absolutely no influence from illadelph when he made it since he had no idea that illadelph had done them, but was more thinking of PHx's dome perc with a tweak--

sometimes there are flukes where artists are thinking of the same thing at the same time-

--Luca and Illadelph get nothing but respect from us--we got the priviledge of meeting him in Vegas at a private dinner, turns out that he and JP went to the same high school, along with Snic--JP was just a little older--Illadelph is one of the few companies out there that has publically given props to JP, something we never forget! Just last week, I was contacted by them about where we got something that they liked which we use on our tubes, and without hesitation, I gave this information freely--

there are so many that think they "Know" what's up, but it is all just assumption--

Do you all really know how other artists feel when their work is being copied everywhere?
I talk to and am friends with many great artists out there, everyone has there own way of dealing with it--some go into major depressions over this stuff--their wives/girlfiends and I often talk about how we need a support group to handle our men when they get ripped off--just yesterday, I heard one artist's response to "imitation is the greatest form of flattery", by responding,"well then I'm getting the shit flattered out of me everywhere I look!"

did you all know that before we started to produce trees and even put our own tweek on them that I contacted Mike from Dememtia to ask his permission? His reply was, go for it because they too check out JP's work for inspiration and have nothing but respect--

I have open relationships with a lot of my competition--even started talking to Richard himself--that is how true and honest business people can do it and hopefully the riff raff will learn from us strong leaders and now old schoolers that this is really how it should be done--

I also invite Itza Joe to give his side of the story--obviously there are two sides to every story, this is just my truth though--I know that a few days ago, before all of this, the bubbleman himself asked what his story was, but even 4 days later there was no response--

Much respect,
Wendy

[slippeh]

If TORO is part of the fm(b/g) family what does that mean.. no more Itza in the glass market?

[cheesebox]

May I ask what kind of proof is their that they stole your tools, and design books? have you asked him? I find it really hard to believe claims of actual theft. Designs get flinched all the time (it sucks but its a matter of life) but tools are something you should speak to the authority's about if true, if he has your proprietary tools in his possession then you need to stand up for yourself. Also bubble, I would REALLY like to hear the other side of the story, so letting ODM speak would let this get alot clearer. A one sided story this thread currently is. Also I do agree that even if hes ripping your design off, as long as he didn't steal anything itza is GOOD for the community, because he is letting people join the "Exclusive" club you guys have made with super hard to get pieces and crazy work letting alot more people get sick glass, and frankly selling it for a good deal less. Wak I have nothing but the utmost respect for toro, ive dreamed of owning your pieces, but thats the closest ive gotten, dreamed I have a Beautiful itza bubbler in my house because I walked into my local glass shop, and he had it in-stock for a reasonable price the welds were AWESOME, the tree AWESOME, the foot was thick, the mouthpiece was just right if anything let JP know this hes an amazing teacher, im sorry this happened to him and hurt him, but I appreciate itza glass for what it is, a lower cost alternative to badass glass with badass quality.